Parliamentary elections are already this Sunday, on October 13. This means that the candidates and their committees have only a few days left to convince voters to their programmes. TVN24 invited one politicians from each of the five nationwide committees to a debate hosted by Monika Olejnik and Grzegorz Kajdanowicz. Civic Coalition (KO) was represented by Izabela Leszczyna, Law and Justice (PiS) by Marcin Horała, Left by Adrian Zandberg (SLD), Confederation by Krzysztof Bosak and Polish People's Party (PSL) by Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz. The debate was divided into four sections: health care, social policy and economy, climate and ecology, and rule of law.
Section 1: Health care
The first question the candidates had to answer in this section was on how to fix Polish health care, or more specifically, how to shorten the queues to specialist doctors and to make Polish doctors choose to work in the country rather than abroad.
Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz (PSL) was the first to answer and said that his party proposes a so-called health care pact. "With no increased spending, there's no chance for better accessibility. We propose more admissions to medical studies and increased wages," he added.
Krzysztof Bosak said that Conferedation did not sign the health care pact. "This system is ill-designed. We support solution that would increase the quality of medical services," said Bosak.
"I'm happy that increased spending was mentioned because that's exactly what Law and Justice has done," said Marcin Horała (PiS). "The government also upped admisson levels in medical academies. There's still a lot to do. At the end of our tenure, health care spending will be twice as high as in the times of our predecessors," he added.
Izabela Leszczyna said that "the PiS cabinet has made the queues to specialists longer than ever before". She added that Civic Coaliton knows how to cure Polish health care. "It won't happen just by signing five points," she said.
"It's been proposed that organisational changes in health care system would be enough. Truth is, that it won't. We are spending way too little on pubilc health care. The money would allow us to shorten the queues, increase accessibility. We should sign the cross-party pact," said Adrian Zandberg (SLD).
The second question: Is there a will to sign a cross-party health care rescue plan?
Adrian Zandberg answered first and said: "We, the Left, are ready to sit down at the table. Health care is the issue Law and Justice failed to deal with during this tenure".
"What separates Confederation from the rest is that we don't believe in the centralised system," said Krzystof Bosak.
Krzysztof Kosiniak-Kamysz said: "Not as a politician, but as a doctor, I will do anything to cure Polish health care. I find Mr Horała's good humour charming. Why don't you show just how indebted are hospitals today? The queues are now longer in 26 specialties".
Horała replied that 350 hospital wards have been closed during the second term of Civic Platform-Polish People's Party cabinet. "But step by step, we are repairing it. If we win another term, we shall shorten the queues," he said.
"We are absolutely for cross-party pact. Let's really do something. Let's win this election. Let's form a coalition cabinet. 21-day wait to see a specialist and 60-minute wait at the emergency room - this is what we propose, " said Izabela Leszczyna.
Section 2: Social policy and economy
First question: How should minimum wage be calculated and how much should it be in the coming years?
Krzysztof Bosak said that "assuming that it's possible to raise minimum wage by 500 zlotys is absurd, this would kill small businesses. This would push people towards illegal work".
"Minimum wage must be increased. Current government wants to just lightly sign the regulation, but it won't be PiS who will pay for all this, but those who create jobs," said Kosiniak-Kamysz. "Tax allowance in Poland is lower than in Morocco and Thailand. Tax allowance up to 8.000 zlotys right away - and then you can call yourselves a government which leaves money in the pockets of Poles," he added.
Horała said: "PiS government significantly lowered taxes. We raised tax deductible expenses. Minimum wage? Want Poles to earn more money. We have a complete bundle of proposals for entrepreneurs, so that it won't harm the economy".
"It's up to Jarosław Kaczyński to come out and tell how high the minimum wage should be. Minimum wage should equal 50 percent of the average wage. People earning the least benefit, but not at the cost of employers," said Izabela Leszczyna.
Adrian Zandberg said that "now is the time when the minimum wage can be responsibly raised. The Left proposed 2.700 zlotys. However, such decisions should be made each year, based on official data for each year".
Second question: How to increase birth rate? What next with in vitro fertilisation?
"We do not support financing IVF from the state budget," said Krzysztof Bosak.
Izabela Leszczyna said that her party supports in vitro. "On behalf of Civic Coalition, I also declare that all thas' been given, won't be taken away. Do you even listen to women in PiS? Why all other four parties put forward men?"
"IVF should be financed from the state budget. However, demographic problems cannot be fixed just by financing in vitro. Housing costs are drastically high. Young people do not decide to have children because they're not sure if they will have a place to live in," said Adrian Zandberg.
Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz said that "in vitro should be financed for all couples who can't have children. PiS government is hypocritical over this issue. They cut funding of IVF for those who couldn't afford it. Demographics must be improved. Clearly, the 500+ programme did not fix it.
"Attacks on PiS continue. When it comes to in vitro, Law and Justice gives freedom. Not to mention, that PiS has placed family policy at the core of its programme," said Marcin Horała.
Section 3: Climate and ecology
First question: How to effectively tackle the smog?
"The Left proposes a grand programme of replacing old-age heating, financed from the state budget. We need serious money for this, just as serious is the problem. We must start to treat each other seriously. It's not that Poles have lungs of steel," said Adrian Zandberg.
Marcin Horała said: "Our predecessors followed this method - if you don't want to have fever, break the thermometer. PiS launched the "clear air" programme. We won't leave Poles alone with this problem. PiS is the first party that actually does something about it".
"We used to have ministers of environment protection, today we have ministers of environment destruction. For example, chairman Kujda handed the money earmarked for heater replacement to Toruń (Father Rydzyk's foundation based in Toruń)," said Izabela Leszczyna.
PSL chief, Kosiniak-Kamysz said that Poland must stand on the "green side of the force". "I don't want my daughter to walk aroung in an anti-smog mask, and soon it will be impossible to breathe otherwise in Poland. Heaters replacement? Yes, indeed. If we decide to replace heaters than we cannot leave Poles alone with this," he added.
Krzysztof Bosak said that none of the governments so far has done too much in that regard. "Clean air programme is a drop in the sea of needs. You're not thinking how to impact markets that would make people want to replace heaters themselves," he added.
Second question: Is coal no more a "black gold"? When we will stop using it once and for all?
Law and Justice candidate said that the government imports gas from the United States. "We're launching a big programme of sea wind power. Coal, however, is crucial to our energy security. Leaving off coal must be a natural process," Horała said.
"We're talking about energetic mix. Today, the most realistic option is cutting down coal use by 50 percent by 2030. Whereas PiS proposes opening new open-pit mines," said Kosiniak-Kamysz.
Krzystof Bosak said that Confederation does not dwell on visions, but on telling the truth. "80 percent of our energy comes from coal, and all experts know well that it's impossible to drop it within the imposed time-frames. We support switching towards nuclear energy," he said.
Civic Coalition candidate said: "On our lists there are candidates from the Greens. Coal in Poland is running out. We can't expect from miners to stay down the shafts forever". "We must not open new mines," Leszczyna said.
Left-wing candidate said that Poland should quit using coal by 2035. "We must leave off coal responsibly, as the Left is proposing," Zandberg said.
Section 4: Rule of law
Shoud there be a shift of power, would judges, whose appointments were legally questionable, remain in the Constitutional Tribunal?
Marcin Horała said that there had been no violation of the law. "These judges were appointed to the letter of the law. This is a question for our predecessors," he added.
Adrian Zandberg said: "We must bring Poland back on the path of the rule of law. You're embarassing yourself (to Horała) by saying that you haven't raised a hand against the constitution. You have the right to fear that the Left is coming back to the parliament. Our hand will not tremble.
"We need to separate the functions of justice minister and prosecutor general. Poles want to reform the judiciary, but they don't want any more politics in the justice system. Under your rule, justice has left the court room," said Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz.
"We support the idea of serious discussion about a new constitution," said Krzysztof Bosak of Confederation.
Izabela Leszczyna said: "We will adopt an act of democracy rejuvenation, restore the constitutional rule making all citizens equal before the law". She added that Marian Banaś is a symbol of the current government. "If you're a member of PiS, you can become finance minister of Supreme Audit Office chief. This is the world of Law and Justice's rule of lawlessness," Civic Coalition candidate said.
Second question: How to restore trust in the Supreme Audit Office? What needs to be done to properly check politicians?
"You can't choose wrong people and expect them to do good things," said Kosiniak-Kamysz. He also argued that the system needs to be changed, so that it would be possible to recall MPs during their tenure. "We must invite more social control. You can't change an institution without changing responsibility," he added.
"In case of Mr Banaś, it's quite clear that the state and state services failed. Our services are so inept, they failed to find out that Mr Banaś has connections such as he does," said Adrian Zandberg. "The other thing is that the services knew about, but the politicians decided that it wasn't a big deal. PiS is ashamed to say what was the truth in that case," he added.
Izabela Leszczyna said that it's necessary to restore trust in many state institutions. "Minister Banaś is a man who admitted to tax fraud, and we all saw who had he rented his building to," she added.
Marcin Horała said: "We're not talking about Sławomir Neumann, we're not talking about Stanisław Gawłowski, we're not talking about Civic Platform's affairs. PiS sets up much higher standard". He argued that if any accusations against Banaś would turn out to be true, consequences would follow. "Legal changes will be needed, as the Supreme Audit Office chief cannot be recalled, but we will do it," he added.
"You're only taking out skeletons from each other's closets," Krzysztof Bosak summed up briefly.
Summary of the debate
"We have an important decision to make. We can turn left and start to build a state of prosperity," said Adrian Zandberg. "If what we say is something you hold dear, tell your families and friends that it's worth to vote, and it's worth to vote on the Left," he appealed.
"Today, I want say - now is the time. You may hold your heads up high with pride and go to the elections," Izabela Leszczyna said. "Poland is our common homeland, and it's our big task to make everyone feel at home here after the elections," she added.
Law and Justice's Marcin Horała said: "Today, you saw a grand anti-PiS coalition. All these words mean nothing. You must ask yourselves, if your lives are better than four years ago. We're not resting on laurels".
"Mr Horała, please do not despair. We must go and vote for the sake of Poland. I call upon you, my fellow countrymen, do not lose faith. Vote cast on PSL is the most precious," said Władysław Kosiniak-Kamysz.
Krzysztof Bosak of Confederation said: "We are a conservative power, we believe that the Sejm needs peopl with ideals. Our lists have the lowest age average. If you want change in politics, choose Confederation". He also asked voters to spread the word about his party because they "didn't have equal chances in all media to present their programme".
The parliamentary elections are set to take place this Sunday - on October 13.
Autor: gf / Źródło: TVN24 News in English
Źródło zdjęcia głównego: tvn24